Transcript: Unbreakable Spirit – Conquering Bladder Cancer with Dean Karrel

March 13, 2024

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Voice over:

This is Bladder Cancer Matters, the podcast for bladder cancer patients, caregivers, advocates, and medical and research professionals. It’s brought to you by the Bladder Cancer Advocacy Network, otherwise known as BCAN. BCAN works to increase public awareness about bladder cancer, advances bladder cancer research, and provides educational and support services for bladder cancer patients and their loved ones. To learn more, please visit bcan.org.

Rick Bangs:

Hi, I’m Rick Bangs, the host of Bladder Cancer Matters, a podcast for, by and about the bladder cancer community. I’m also a survivor of muscle-invasive bladder cancer, the proud owner of a 2006-model year neobladder, and a patient advocate supporting cancer research at the Bladder Cancer Advocacy Network, or as many call it BCAN, producers of this podcast.

I’m pleased to welcome today’s guest, Dean Karrel. Dean is from Riverdale, New Jersey, which is about 25 miles northwest of New York City. He and his wife have two children and a grandson. Dean spent more than three decades in publishing, most recently as Senior Vice President of Sales with Wiley. He’s currently a career development advisor, sales trainer, and instructor of 14 courses for LinkedIn Learning, viewed by a million and a half global listeners.

In November 2021, Dean was diagnosed with non-muscle invasive T1 high-grade bladder cancer. Dean had BCG and gemcitabine treatments that unfortunately were unsuccessful. He and his doctors concluded that he should have a radical cystectomy, which was performed in November 2022, with an ileal conduit. Dean, thanks for joining our podcast today.

Dean Karrel:

Rick, it’s an absolute pleasure to be here today. I appreciate the invitation. And I am from River Vale, New Jersey, not Riverdale, which is they’re two towns with similar names, so my mail often gets misrouted. But it got me in the right directions today to be with your podcast, so it’s great to be with you today.

Rick Bangs:

All right, we’ll make sure the fan mail gets to the right address. Okay. I want to start with your diagnosis. When did your diagnosis happen and what were the circumstances? What were your symptoms and how did your diagnosis come up?

Dean Karrel:

This goes back to the fall of 2021, and I was on a business trip to England, early part of November. And on my way from the airport, Heathrow Airport, to downtown London, I felt an urge to use the restroom. And I knew I had to do an immediate visit, and went to the restroom and unfortunately I spotted a fair amount of blood in my urine.

Thankfully, I had my annual physical scheduled a few days after my return from England, and my primary care physician, Dr. Anand Srinivasan, out of Englewood Hospital in New Jersey, immediately had me have a ultrasound and a CAT scan, and we spotted some lesions in my bladder. Shortly thereafter, within two weeks, I was in a hospital, having a cystoscopy along with a TURBT, T-U-R-B-T, having the bladder tumors removed. And it was determined after the pathology came back that I had a T1, a high-grade bladder cancer.

Rick Bangs:

Wow. Okay. You’ve had kind of a diagnosis, and we all go through this, who do we tell, do we tell anyone. Can you talk about how you grappled with this and how your thinking may have evolved over time and how you navigated this?

Dean Karrel:

Well, it was an interesting timing in our family. My daughter and my son-in-law gave us the exciting news that they wanted to start a family, which is a stressful time for them. So the last thing I wanted to do was tell my daughter that dad has bladder cancer, so I kept it quiet, and for a fair amount of time. My brother is a retired physician, so I informed him early on. He was a big help throughout the entire process with navigating some of the questions and being a sounding board.

When my daughter announced that she was pregnant, which was great news, then we were approaching the timeframe when my son was about to get married with his partner in Switzerland. And so I had to keep it quiet again. So I went from November of 2021 through August of 2022 with just my wife and my brother being aware of my situation.

Rick Bangs:

Were you still working at the time?

Dean Karrel:

I’m 68, so I’m semi-retired but I keep busy and I do projects. No one ever knew. I mean, I never looked like I was ill. Even through the treatment process, I was fine. And it’s a very unusual situation, it was life as usual except for those visits to the doctor’s office. And again, my wife was a rock and thank goodness for my brother along the way, and it wasn’t until after my son’s wedding in July that I alerted the whole family.

Rick Bangs:

Wow. Okay, so you end up on what I’ve called the slippery slope of T1 or non-muscle invasive bladder cancer. It’s T1, but it’s high grade, so we know that that’s kind of the slippery slope. And so you and your doctor now balancing managing or preventing the cancer from progressing, versus the potential cure of a radical cystectomy and all the challenges that go along with that.

I think listeners could learn a lot from hearing about your experience and how you managed that. What was going through your mind as you and your doctor navigated those tricky, treacherous waters? What was that experience like?

Dean Karrel:

Well, like most patients, we’re all learning about bladder cancer when we hear it for the first time, where you do your research, you’re trying to figure out what’s the prognosis and what are the various grades and what’s the situation and what’s the process for treatments. And I got a lot from the BCAN website, I have to tell you, it’s been terrific the amount of information I got there. And I fully expected that this would be a process where I would be healed. Early-stage bladder cancer, even a high grade, is fairly treatable.

And so I went through the process, as I mentioned, I had the TURBT procedure and I had the tumors removed. There is a six-week waiting process then. You have to let your bladder recover from that procedure. Six weeks later, I had a cystoscopy and some more tissue was taken to see what was going on, and I had some chemotherapy instilled. So this is end of January, early February of 2022. Then there’s another six week waiting period, because again, you have to let your bladder recover from the procedures.

I had a cystoscopy again. And the cancer was still there, much improved, but still there. And that’s when I began BCG treatment. And it was once a week, a five-minute experience going to a doctor’s office, getting the BCG instilled. And then for the rest of the week, I mean, it’s life as usual. I mean, it was a really interesting process. Again, no one knew except my brother and my wife, and I would go each week. And unfortunately, when I would go back for more procedures, it was found that the cancer was being contained but it wasn’t going away.

And as we progressed through 2022, I was working with a number of urologists, and then I met a surgeon with what I was thinking would be the unlikely chance that I’d have to have a radical cystectomy. And the surgeon said to me, “Dean, let’s give it one more try.” This is in August of 2022 going into September, and I began six weeks again of gemcitabine chemotherapy. And that’s when again, when that was all completed, a biopsy was taken. I talk about this of the doctor said to me, “Do you want to go in with a camera and look at your bladder with me?” And as soon as the camera was in my bladder, I could tell right away. I mean, there were too many colors and a lot of different things. And even as a lay person, I could tell we had a problem.

So at the end of that procedure, he said, “Dean, we got to make a decision of what we’re going to do going forward.”

Rick Bangs:

Because he had said, “We’re going to give it one more shot,” so were you still thinking that the radical cystectomy was off in the distance or what were you thinking?

Dean Karrel:

Throughout 2022, I became more and more realistic that this was not going well. I mean, normally you’d be hearing, and everything that I was reading, that BCG treatments work, gemcitabine works. So I was hopeful yet realistic that I might have to make a decision.

I was researching along the way and learning about the various options down the road, whether it might be an Indiana pouch, neobladder, or ileal conduit. But again, he had said there’s a 40% chance, the 50% chance this last treatment might work. I could tell though, during this process, I didn’t tolerate the gemcitabine well, it is a very toxic chemotherapy. And as like I tell everybody though, every patient is different. Some people don’t tolerate BCG well. For me, it was a piece of cake, it was very simple. And the gemcitabine was a much more potent … And I could tell that this wasn’t working the way it should, and lo and behold, that was the case.

Rick Bangs:

So with the BCG, you didn’t have any fatigue, you didn’t have any trouble holding it in your bladder for the whatever the amount of time, none of that?

Dean Karrel:

No, it’s interesting, you read the … Again, a lot of this is on the BCAN site, for some patients it’s a long process. You have to keep it in your bladder for two hours after it’s instilled. And it was very simple. I’d go home and then, it’s interesting, you roll left, right, and then on your back and on your stomach so it coats your bladder. This was simple. And after two hours, you void it and you move on, you go on with your day.

Now for some patients, it’s a real process. For me it was like, “This is a piece of cake. What’s the big deal?”

Rick Bangs:

Yeah, I mean, for some patients that two hours is very, very hard.

Dean Karrel:

Yes. The gemcitabine, when that was instilled, I had time so I could keep it to two hours, and then I had moments where I could barely keep it half an hour. And that was one of the highs and lows of the treatment process where, “Hey, you know what? This isn’t working.” And that’s what sped up my process of researching what if, and what if the radical cystectomy of, “Hey, you know what? It probably is going to happen of having to have that.”

In discussions with oncologists along the way, a line was said to me, “Dean, there’s a point here. We can keep doing this and we can go in and keep doing procedures, but you’re playing with fire.” And I’m paraphrasing, but that word was used, “You’re playing with fire.” And if you keep with the high-grade T1 and you’re risking it going into the muscle wall, and because it’s high grade, it can move on fast. So that’s where I was in September, October of 2022.

Rick Bangs:

Okay, so you’re at that point and you’ve done your homework, you decide to have the radical cystectomy, and you chose the ileal conduit. How did you decide on that? What was your logic and thought process?

Dean Karrel:

Again, everybody’s different and everybody looks at this process differently. And for me, I evaluated it as I’m 68 and I’m hoping to live to 98. We all want to have those [inaudible 00:12:05]. So for me, the Indiana pouch I ruled out quickly because some people love it, but there is a process where you have to use a catheter every four hours to empty your Indiana pouch. Four hours plus or minus. The neobladder, which again, you’ve had yours for 18 years, right?

Rick Bangs:

Almost, yeah.

Dean Karrel:

People swear by it, they love it. And it was recommended to me because I’m in good shape, and they said, “Dean, you’re only 68. This can work for you.” But again, as I read and did my research and you know this, Rick, there’s a learning curve to it.

Rick Bangs:

Oh, yeah.

Dean Karrel:

Some patients learn very quickly and others, it takes a while. The surgery is more complicated.

Rick Bangs:

And longer.

Dean Karrel:

Longer. So maybe it’s my New Jersey no patience, but it was sort of like, “How do I get this done? How do I get the procedure done, have the fastest recovery time and move on?”

And that was a lot of my thinking. And also, for me, I thought of it as when I’m in my late 70s, which is going to be the easiest process to handle, that was, again, my thinking. So as people listen to me here it’s, again, every patient approaches this in a different way. And for me, this is the one that made the most sense to me.

Rick Bangs:

Right, right. And we’re all fans of the decision we made, but the satisfaction levels are pretty consistent. It really depends on the criteria you have for the solution, that’s more around that.

Dean Karrel:

There’s a sports broadcaster in New York named Howie Rose, and he does the New York Mets broadcast, and he was very public about his neobladder. He has a neobladder and he loves it.

Rick Bangs:

Oh, so all right.

Dean Karrel:

Yeah. But he did talk about there is a learning process. I learned very quickly with my ileal conduit, the pouch and wafer system. And again, for some patients it takes longer, but I think within a week to 10 days I was off and running. I mean, this is, “I’m fine.” And it’s not what I planned but I learned quickly, and I think for me it was the right decision.

Rick Bangs:

Good, good. Okay, but we also have a lot of challenges when we have a bladder cancer diagnosis. So what were some of the hardest parts for you, and how did you get through them?

Dean Karrel:

Well, there’s two pieces of that question. It’s like there’s the mental aspect and the physical aspect. And physically, what’s interesting, for me, the surgery was pretty straightforward. I felt well very fast. And people often say this, when you have the radical cystectomy, you actually look okay. It’s major surgery but I looked fine, I felt fine. There was no issues in my abdomen. Ironically, where I had more pain was … Sometimes with some surgeries you get, because of the anesthesia, you get some discomfort in your shoulders.

Rick Bangs:

For sure.

Dean Karrel:

And that was the biggest issue with me.

The mental aspect is one where I’m an upbeat guy, I’m an optimistic guy. I’ve had a whole year to process this procedure of a radical cystectomy. But on day three, in the middle of the night, I was awakened by a disturbance down the hallway. A patient was having an issue. So I was startled and I was awakened, and I realized that my night gown, the gown that I was wearing in the hospital, was wet. The sheets under me were wet, the sheets over me was wet, and my bladder pouch and wafer were leaking. And the dim light that was coming in from the hallway at the hospital, I could see urine flowing instead of into my pouch, but down my abdomen. And it was every 15 seconds I could see that happening.

And the reality hit me. I lost my bladder and it was just overwhelming. And I started to cry. And it was not wailing and I wasn’t bawling, I just couldn’t stop crying. [inaudible 00:16:20] the reality hit me was like, “You know what? I lost my bladder. My life has changed.” And I’m very open telling people it was the lowest point of my life. We always have some issues with our families, but for me personally, it was the lowest point of my life because how do I move on? I said, “I can’t fix this right now.” And I needed the nurses to help change my gown because, going back, I couldn’t lift my shoulders. I couldn’t lift my arms.

Rick Bangs:

Oh, yeah. Sure, sure.

Dean Karrel:

So here I am at 5:30 in the morning, I’m having my gown changed, I can’t fix the wafer. And then when we finally put a new wafer and pouch on, I was afraid to move in the bed. So I started to cry again.

That was a real low point of this whole process was you go through the shock and awe of being diagnosed back in November of 2021, through the disappointments of treatments not working. And then the reality of, “Oh my gosh, this is real. I’ve lost my bladder.” So that was the low point.

Rick Bangs:

Okay. And what about some high points?

Dean Karrel:

Well, the high points, the most important was I’m here. I’m alive, I’m living life. My daughter and son-in-law, they have a son. I have a grandson, Ethan Daniel. And that’s the best thing there in the world, that’s the greatest thing. I’m living life. My family has been so supportive and so great, from my brother and sister, my kids, my son Scott, daughter Melissa, and my friends.

So when you say the high points, is every family goes through something, none of us are immune, and so what do you do? And so for me, yes, I didn’t sign up for this.

Rick Bangs:

[inaudible 00:18:09].

Dean Karrel:

And you didn’t either, but what are you going to do? So I said, “I’m moving on, I’m moving …” My line is, “I’m moving forward.” And so I’m not thrilled, but I’m happy and I’ve moved on.

Rick Bangs:

Good for you. Good for you. You and I both have tremendous respect for nurses who’ve been part of our journey. And so I wanted to talk a little bit about how nurses, and particularly stoma nurses, which are so important, had an impact on you, and how did you give back to them?

Dean Karrel:

In my business work, I talk about the basic business skills and skills of working with people, listening. And I talk a lot about emotional intelligence, which is being aware and understanding and able to read people. And from day one of going into the hospital, every nurse during the day and the night nurses, it was just amazing. And when I talked about that low moment I had that third day, it was a nurse that brought me back to reality and helped me move forward that day. The nurses were unbelievable.

And the ostomy team, the team that helps me manage my stoma at the Hackensack Medical Centers where I had my surgery, were unbelievable. It was a nurse by the name of Mary Jo Conley, who just was able to read me, understand me, motivate me, encourage me, and also be realistic. You’ve got to be … It’s cautious optimism where you can tell a patient, “Yes, you’re going to be able to get through this,” but you can’t tell them that it’s going to happen tomorrow. So she had the balance and the wisdom to be able to guide me along. And I just was so indebted to that whole team, and especially the ostomy and stoma team.

And I wrote letters to the head of nursing at the Hackensack Medical Center, the team there, and I wrote down all the names of the nurses during my stay at the hospital, and I thanked them. That nurse in particular who took me off the edge that one morning, named Jamie [inaudible 00:20:05], I mean, she’s an angel. Mary Jo Conley is an angel.

Rick Bangs:

They’re famous now.

Dean Karrel:

No, they are famous now. Yes. They’re famous, they made the podcast. And well, they should be famous. And I say that in that there are oftentimes, the rush of a hospital environment, they don’t get the recognition maybe as much as they should.

Rick Bangs:

No.

Dean Karrel:

But they were the superstars that really … Obviously my surgeon, but the superstars of moving me, helping me along, were the nurses.

Rick Bangs:

Yeah, they’re so critical. So critical. Okay, so we have this admiration, but you were a keynote speaker at the Northeast Region Wound, Ostomy and Incontinence Nurses Society meeting. And so I want to hear how did that come about and what were some of the things you wanted to share with them specifically?

Dean Karrel:

Well, again, in my business work, I do talk about business skills and social skills and emotion intelligence, that I just talked about. And I also, during my time with Mary Jo Conley, my ostomy nurse, I said, one of the questions I had to her pre-surgery was, “Am I ever going to be able to play golf again? Am I going to be out exercising?” You know, obvious questions. And she said yes, and she was honest. She says, “Dean, it’s not going to happen during the first two months, but you will be back playing golf again, and you’ll do all the activities you used to do. Now no rugby, no heavy weightlifting or things like that, but tennis and all of the golf, you’ll be able to do it.”

You may all remember in February of 2023, that was a warm weekend here in the Northeast where it’s about 60 degrees, and I live right next to a golf course. And I said, “You know what I’m going to do?” She had recommended a stealth belt, which is an ostomy belt where you put your pouch in. And I bought that, I put my pouch in this belt. And I went out to the driving range and I brought my video camera with me and I said, “Mary Jo, watch me. I’m hitting golf balls.”

And she was so excited that she … She’s active with her region’s the Wound, Ostomy and Continence Nurses Society group. She forwarded it to the president and the speaker committee, and lo and behold, there I am. They offered me the opportunity to speak last December of 2023 as their keynote speaker, talking about my experience and also talking about the importance of the nurses that I worked with. And I talked about the ups and the downs, just like we’re talking about now, of this whole experience, but also the importance and critical nature of what the ostomy teams and stoma teams do to help patients.

And that was such a marvelous experience, about 175 nurses. And they were thrilled to hear my story, and I was happy and proud to be able to tell it.

Rick Bangs:

And I think our listeners could find it if they Googled, I think they would be able to find this.

Dean Karrel:

It is, it’s on YouTube under my name there, Dean Karrel, K-A-R-R-E-L. And you’ll see the keynote speech.

Rick Bangs:

Yeah, and it’s great. It’s great. So what’s different about your life after bladder cancer?

Dean Karrel:

Well, there are a number of things that you take for granted. I used to love to get up in the morning and rush to the kitchen, grab a cup of coffee and start my day. And it’s, ironically, one of the learning curve that it’s taken me a little bit longer was you can’t do that. You’ve got to get up, and for me, because I have a pouch and a wafer, I have to empty my night bag. I have to clean my night bag. I have to make sure the area around my pouch and wafer is clean, and it takes a while. So the days of running out of the bedroom at five minutes are over, that’s over.

Every patient, every patient with a ileal conduit, the pouch and wafer system, fears leakage. So I call it the Napoleon complex where you have … You take your hand and put it on your waist. You know those pictures of Napoleon where he’s standing there? Well, four or five times a day, I’ll put my hand in my shirt, in between my shirt and pants, and to make sure I’m not leaking. And that’s different. I have a schedule now of every four days, I’m very fortunate, every four days I change my pouch and my wafer.

The learning curve for many patients, they’re going a day or two days, and some people are going five or six. I just have a steady path of every four days I change mine. We all fear leaking, we all fear if there’s going to be an aroma. I feel like my sense of smell is 20% stronger than it used to be. No one smells it but I sure as heck do sometimes. So it’s different, but the main part of my life is, ironically, exactly the same.

Rick Bangs:

Yeah, that’s terrific. That’s terrific. So what’s the same about your life?

Dean Karrel:

Well, I work, I still do the same thing. I do a lot of work with LinkedIn. I talk about the sales-related topics, business-related issues. I do videos. I’m playing golf twice a week, as poorly as I did pre-surgery.

Rick Bangs:

No improvement.

Dean Karrel:

I could still put a ball in the lake better than I always did. And a lot of patients ask about going to the gym. I go to the gym. I’m on the treadmill, I’m running on the treadmill. I used to enjoy doing weights, and I’m very, very careful about that. And that’s something that our patients have to be concerned with, is making sure you don’t get a hernia. There are some great resources on the website, the BCAN site, and other websites about exercise you can do to build your core up.

So my gym work is exactly the same. I’m still doing work with the LinkedIn Learning, the training division, so my life is the same, except I change a pouch and I empty a pouch regularly each day.

Rick Bangs:

Right, right. And I think you like to travel. And I heard you had some concerns about getting through security screening at the airport, which I think, I have to imagine, people with a ileal conduit are always going to have this concern. So would you talk about that? Because I think people would benefit from hearing how you grappled with it.

Dean Karrel:

That’s a big concern. And everything that you read on from the community boards about those with the ostomies, is the concern of going to an airport. The big thing for me was I’ve got a grandson and post-surgery I wasn’t flying, and then I was afraid to fly. And finally a urologist said to me, “Dean, just get on a plane and go. What did you do pre-surgery? If you had to go to the bathroom on a plane, what’d you do?” I said, “You know what? I got up and went to the bathroom.” “Well, you do the same thing. You’re going to do the same thing.” But it is a real fear that you won’t be able to use the restroom. Well, don’t drink four beers and you get on a plane and then you relieve yourself before you get on the plane.

But it’s also, I had the fear of … You know when you go through the TSA and you have to raise your arms.

Rick Bangs:

Oh, yeah.

Dean Karrel:

And then it goes, “Oh, they’re going to see that I have a bag.” And it was probably the best experience for me was going through Denver on my very first trip, I happened to be the guy who was called out for a full body search, the random passenger. And then I said to the TSA agent, “I have an ostomy.” And he looked at me and he smiled and he said, “Sir, we have seen everything. Don’t worry. Relax.” And the eyeopener there was, and it’s a message I’m careful how I say it to people, is that people don’t really care that you have an ostomy. They care about your health, but unless you bring it up and say, “You know what? Oh, I’ve got a neobladder,” or, “I’ve got a pouch in the wafer,” no one’s going to ask and no one cares.

And the TSA agent said, “Look, don’t worry about it.” Okay, well, then he patted me down. He said, “You can either let me touch where your wafer and pouch or you can give me a visual.” And I said, “You know what? I’m in front of 2,000 people.” I lifted my shirt up and I gave him a visual, and nobody cared. And then he smiled and he patted my arm, and he said, “Hey, have a great trip.” And that was a big step for me saying, “You know what? Let’s do it. Live life. Go on.” So I travel, I’m going again in a couple of weeks out Denver. And so that’s what’s good.

Rick Bangs:

Did he actually refer to wafer in pouch when he was talking to you?

Dean Karrel:

They really have seen everything. You stop to think about it. Everybody’s got something, from metal in their knee or hip or something. They’ve got pacemakers. They’ve got things that are going to trigger the systems. And then how many people with tattoos and markings and piercings all over their bodies that can trigger things.

Rick Bangs:

Oh, sure.

Dean Karrel:

So as he smiled, he said, “Mr. Karrel, we’ve seen everything. Don’t worry about it.” And he was great. I mean, that guy, he’s a hero in my mind. Because he set me on a right path, put me on the right step.

Rick Bangs:

Right, right. Yeah. And I know the TSA folks have had a lot of training versus when this first started, which was I think in the early 2010s. I know there was some issues when they first went. Of course this is after 9/11. But yeah, I know there was some issues with TSA, not knowing how to … But they have training now.

Dean Karrel:

They do have training. And then as a patient now, as somebody with an ostomy, and you can get a little card that says, “I have an ostomy.” And so again, I may be making light of it, but for those patients and those who have a pouch and a wafer system or whatever, get the card and then you show the TSA agent. If it makes you feel more confident, do that route. But again, they’ve seen everything. So it made me feel better.

Rick Bangs:

Right. And I have a neobladder and then was having to bring sterile saline, which comes in a bottle, and of course is larger than the amount … All right. And so you learn how to do that. It’s a medical liquid, therefore it’s exempt, but it’s got to be pulled out separately and all that. So learning curve, but you figure it out.

All right, good. So you’re back on the travel route, that’s great. I want to talk about BCAN. When did you discover BCAN and how did it help you as a patient?

Dean Karrel:

When you get any illness, anything, you do your quick research, you go on Google, and I found the BCAN site right away. And it’s well laid out, it’s well-designed. It covers everything from A to Z. And it was a very big help for me initially, just to say what’s … We all trying to figure out what’s the grading system, T1 to T2, this and that.

Rick Bangs:

Oh, yes, yes.

Dean Karrel:

So very early on that I found the BCAN site and just to research various aspects of bladder cancer. Obviously you’re looking up statistics of the prognosis, that’s all there. You’re looking for support systems, that’s all there. You’re looking at the research. Coming from the business world where I’ve seen a lot of websites, good, bad, and ugly, the BCAN side is really well-designed and it is easy to navigate. So for somebody who is, like myself, who was somewhere where, oh my gosh, trying to navigate all of this, it was very, very helpful.

And then now, post-surgery, I mean, there’s opportunities now where we can actually help other patients with survivor-to-survivor programs and resources to help people. There are also pamphlets and other reading material. There is, as I said, soup to nuts of information that is available for patients on the website.

Rick Bangs:

Yeah, it’s really incredible. Really incredible. Any final thoughts you want to provide to our listeners?

Dean Karrel:

Well, Rick, nobody signs up for this. Nobody signs up and say, “I want to have a bladder cancer.” So we’re all different and we all approach this in a different process. And then most importantly I think for all patients is ask questions. And don’t be shy. Sometimes we get a little nervous talking about this part of our anatomy, that part. These doctors and nurses have heard it all, they’ve seen it all, don’t be shy.

And yes, my life has changed. I’ve lost a body part, but I’ve moved forward and I’m having a great time. And there are days, it’s just like pre-surgery, some days are better than others, but I’m living life, I’m enjoying it. And I am just grateful for the opportunity today to talk to some of your listeners. And thank you so much, Rick, for letting me join you today.

Rick Bangs:

My pleasure. My pleasure. I want to thank you for sharing your experience on the slippery slope of bladder cancer, which is so important, and giving us a glimpse into how you lead a full and complete life after your radical cystectomy. If you’d like more information on bladder cancer, please visit the BCAN website, www.bcan.org.

Dean, in case people wanted to get in touch with you, could you share some contact information?

Dean Karrel:

I’d be happy to. My email address is dkarrel, D-K-A-R-R-E-L-726@gmail.com. dkarrel726@gmail.com. And I am also very active on LinkedIn. Listeners want to reach out and connect with me, I post a couple times a week about a variety of different topics and I’d be happy to connect there also.

Rick Bangs:

Excellent. Thank you. That’s very generous.

Just a reminder, if you’d like more information about bladder cancer, you can contact the Bladder Cancer Advocacy Network at 1888-901-2226. That’s all the time we have today. Be sure to like, comment, and subscribe to this podcast so we have your feedback. Thank you for listening, and we’ll be back soon with another interesting episode of Bladder Cancer Matters. Thanks again, Dean.

Voice over:

Thank you for listening to Bladder Cancer Matters, a podcast by the Bladder Cancer Advocacy Network or BCAN. BCAN works to increase public awareness about bladder cancer, advanced bladder cancer research, and provide educational and support services for bladder cancer patients. For more information about this podcast and additional information about bladder cancer, please visit bcan.org.